Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 08:44:38 am
The Westfalia top is fiberglass with two layers of wood inside. This makes it a MUCH more durable top than the Winnebago plastic top. For this reason it supports roof tracks really well.
I prefer the tracks over "artificial gutter mounts" because the tracks allow for a wide range of adjustability, look like a factory install, spread the load over a greater distance with more attachment points, and provide options for things like solar panels.
I've always used the 60" tracks to get the most coverage.
Mount them about a foot from the rear of the top. This puts the load near the rear of the top to make it easier to open. But also give plenty of reach towards the front of the top. No reason to be clear at the rear of the top.
The tops get really heavy, really fast. So you may want to add extra gas struts to the top to make it easier to lift with a load.
I mount them 36" apart. This puts them in the ideal support range for the cross bars. It also puts the trans near but not directly over the edges of the top. It also clears the hinge mounts.
The stock Yakima bolts that come with the tracks are not long enough. You will need to replace them with at least 1.4" bolts. I use stainless steel to prevent corrosion. Make sure the heads are no thicker than the stock Yakima bolts. These are easy to find at any ACE Hardware or similar.
Use a good outdoor silicone. Make sure to spread it on the holes before putting the bolts in. This will ensure a watertight seal.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7702/17188392246_b6b37d7081_b.jpg)
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 08:45:49 am
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7635/17214208045_f26d83c941_b.jpg)
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 08:47:55 am
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2439/13020930625_4262359278_b.jpg)
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 08:51:00 am
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7361/12526517835_74c326da66_b.jpg)
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3699/9352673410_8231003daf_b.jpg)
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 08:53:34 am
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3711/8898119476_41f828bb9e_b.jpg)
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 09:01:46 am
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8769/17673826830_2da7f094f1_b.jpg)
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 09:02:44 am
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7715/17212655152_fd980674a9_b.jpg)
Post by: rcowan on May 19, 2015, 12:46:49 pm
Post by: Cole on May 19, 2015, 12:53:20 pm
The early (1993) Eurovans had captured nuts inside the top. If you look at an early van you will see the top is perfectly smooth. The later vans have hole plugs for every bolt(hinges, handles, etc). So clearly Westfalia found it necessary to thru-bolt the tops.
Post by: rcowan on May 19, 2015, 01:23:15 pm
Post by: Slowroller on May 19, 2015, 02:07:38 pm
joe
Post by: 42pvan on May 19, 2015, 10:11:20 pm
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Cole on May 20, 2015, 05:48:28 am
Looks like the Yakima tracks might actually reinforce those tops where the tend to flex and crack. But this is just speculation
Post by: albertr on May 20, 2015, 08:02:12 am
-albertr
Post by: Cole on May 20, 2015, 07:01:41 pm
Another rack on a Westy for reference
Post by: boinzy on May 21, 2015, 12:09:27 pm
Post by: Suthernvanman on June 11, 2015, 12:09:58 pm
I love this van. Favorite vehicle ever - all I thought it could be. It serves as basecamp for regional cragging, urban office pre/post local bike rides / gym climbing, happy hour central after local bike rides / gym climbing, weekends at the track, whitewater ventures - just perfect.
So when it comes to racking if it can be overdone please do count me in!!
I went with tracks for the same reason as Cole. I bought 2 complete kits though and cut them down to fit full length of pop top then added four cross bars. I mitered both pieces on each side - the 3rd from front cross bar mount straddles the joint - it's crisp.
The basket up front holds awkward stuff like pit stands or wet gear or I use expedition dry bags and can pack whatever. The top box keeps a grill + a couple of portable tables permanently + a few pieces if need be. To the left of the box will be a 'low boy' bike mount (frame / rear wheel on cross bars) that I've yet to invent. I have a single bike mount to the right of the basket. I use the bars for EZ up / boats / lumber / etc.
Couple of notes - as Cole pointed out the Yakima supplied track bolts are too short. I believe they are fine thread and I had a hard time locating via Home Depot / Ace so bought them online. The black plastic thumb nuts on the interior do not bother me visually, I can only see the very front two unless I am 'in bed'. I sourced some neoprene washers for under the tracks in addition to silicone.
As to mounting a basket directly to tracks it could be done with a bit of custom carriage bolt / mounting magician work I believe. At least you can see there are ample opportunities to secure the basket itself.
I also added a rack on the back. Sweet way to climb up top for rigging and has a fold down shelf that I use for a variety of things (track fuel cans / track fluids / short haul firewood / etc.) You can use bike mounts back here as well but not with shelf / ladder rig I'm running. Couple of small issues with the rack - interference with rear wiper staggers ladder a bit (still functional) and cold weather + weight means hatch will not stay up without prop (I'm about to cut a tube that will function like the pop top strut lock but used heavy duty tent pole last winter.) The back rack came out of CAN with great service from http://vwrack.com
From the top:
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-dDCW9nb/0/L/DSCN1979-L.jpg)
Side shot:
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-gfk9hRt/0/L/DSCN1981-L.jpg)
Ass end:
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-2BxKbfn/0/L/DSCN1975-L.jpg)
Black thumb nut visible with top down x 2
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-gp4zzMQ/0/L/DSCN1982-L.jpg)
Post by: Cole on June 11, 2015, 12:23:13 pm
Post by: rcowan on June 11, 2015, 05:13:34 pm
Post by: Itsamoto on June 12, 2015, 10:25:50 am
I really like the Gary Lee setup - although it seems pretty pricey.
I did read post from the UK T4 forum -- whereby some Fiamma rear rack users upgraded the rear door struts to adjust for the extra weight. So its doable to find a fix that makes that easier to open when loaded.
Post by: Lugboot on June 12, 2015, 11:28:10 am
Post by: Suthernvanman on June 12, 2015, 12:16:47 pm
Man I tried and tried to upgrade those rear door struts but no luck just fails. I bought a couple of 250lbf (180lbf is stock) thinking I'd mount one and maybe both but they were about 1/2" long and I couldn't get them on. I'd post a pic of my home made strut compression rig (two pieces of angle iron with bolts for compression) but then my welding 'skills' would be on the web for all to ridicule. I'd still give strut upgrade a shot if someone knows a direct fit.
I did motivate at lunch and cut up tube for homemade locking strut. The tube was scrap - came off my adventure skiff as it was tiller extension that failed on high speed run of an Atlantic marsh - thank you kill switch! Dimensions on the tube: OD 7/8" ID 13/16" cut to length was about 9 3/4". I made a jig out of MDF and with the tube a bit longer than need be pinned it in via screw. Then 2 passes on the table saw for the slot, and cut to length.
The ID is perfect snap fit for bottom mount on strut as you can see in pic two. This seems like it will work pretty well but it won't get regular use until November.
fwiw - the blade in pic was used for mdf jig, I swapped a non ferrous version in the table saw for tube ripping.
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-2gx6p6z/0/L/DSCN1994-L.jpg)
Nice fit - could even be another 1/4" in length:
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-ZwhXqTP/0/L/DSCN1998-L.jpg)
Post by: Suthernvanman on June 19, 2015, 10:02:40 am
There are additional benefits too. I load bikes on top by 'hanging' them temporarily on the bars, climbing up the ladder then lift and secure fork mount / rear tire. At 5'9" I need a ladder otherwise. I do have conceptual plans for a 'low boy' mount per previous post but it will be on the driver's side rear to avoid sliding door interference.
Not shown is the convenience of hanging clothes, hydration packs, outdoor showers etc.
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-gDLgVrB/0/L/Bike-L.jpg)
Post by: Cole on June 19, 2015, 11:48:11 am
Post by: boinzy on June 23, 2015, 08:46:01 pm
And what length crossbars? I don't like the look of too-wide cross bars, but I'm thinking I want a basket up top and a Road Shower. I'm probably going to need a wide setup.
Post by: Suthernvanman on June 24, 2015, 01:41:13 pm
Once the tracks are on, what towers do you like?
And what length crossbars? I don't like the look of too-wide cross bars, but I'm thinking I want a basket up top and a Road Shower. I'm probably going to need a wide setup.
I used Yakima 'Control Towers' with 'Landing Pad 1' for towers. The baskets are rectangular and can be installed 'length' wise if you are looking for narrower cross bars. The next size down is 66" and then 58" and finally 48"
My 78" are close to width of van at the side mirrors.
Post by: Suthernvanman on June 26, 2015, 11:56:12 am
I did read post from the UK T4 forum -- whereby some Fiamma rear rack users upgraded the rear door struts to adjust for the extra weight. So its doable to find a fix that makes that easier to open when loaded.
Thanks for the direction - I used it to track down what I'm pretty sure will in fact work. Definitely adds some $$$ to the back rack spend but since I've finally found a beefy strut it will be nice to not need to fiddle with my newly built (and maybe still useful if the rack is super loaded up and it brrrrrrrrrr) home made strut locker
UK forum had a link to a parts place with part #7D0829331G as T4 H/D Tail Gate Lifter Gas Struts with exhaust rated at 910 Newton. Google says 910 Newton is 204 lbf so about 20bf more than stock.
Google also says I can order these from Jim Ellis VW - just up the road. Spec on page also shows 910 Newton. Gotta love their 'you save 25%!)
GoWesty oem strut replacement part 7D0829331F which is also available from Jim Ellis with a spec of 830 Newtons or 186lbf.
I've got silly time and money chasing this - guess I should have dug harder in VW parts catalog to start :P
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-PVT5wmz/0/L/HDUK-L.jpg)
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-6PDjQZQ/0/L/HDJE-L.jpg)
(http://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-CkCzp6z/0/L/HDNDGW-L.jpg)
Post by: Marshy on June 29, 2015, 01:09:42 pm
I guess this is the down side of having all that awesome head room inside.
What kind of step ladder or collapsible ladder do you use to be able to reach your rooftop cargo boxes?
And where do you store your ladder?
I am aware of the hatch ladders for sale at vwrack.com, but would prefer a different (and cheaper) solution.
(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s385/marshallmay/DA8E38B2-9C32-4081-8E7C-DC99FFAED794.jpg) (http://s1049.photobucket.com/user/marshallmay/media/DA8E38B2-9C32-4081-8E7C-DC99FFAED794.jpg.html)
Post by: Cole on June 29, 2015, 01:54:13 pm
Post by: Marshy on June 29, 2015, 02:04:43 pm
Post by: fkahlert on July 31, 2015, 07:43:17 pm
FK
Post by: Itsamoto on July 31, 2015, 10:38:44 pm
What kind of step ladder or collapsible ladder do you use to be able to reach your rooftop cargo boxes?
And where do you store your ladder?
When I first set out with the cargo box, I positioned it at the back of the van (helps with lifting top too -- if applicable) and to access the box I would either stand on the wheel, or open the sliding door and stand off the rear bench (shoes off of course!). I got old fast doing that -- and now I have a simple 3-step ladder that I take with me to make me feel even shorter. :-[
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71htul%2BI0YL._SY355_.jpg)
Folds up nice, easily slips in under the rear platform.
Post by: rcowan on August 13, 2015, 02:17:02 pm
I guess I need to put a tape measure on the top when I get home tonight.....
Post by: Suthernvanman on August 20, 2015, 09:37:05 am
1) could you please help me by pointing out exactly which kits you purchased from yakima? bar lengths etc.
I went with 60"" tracks with 'capnuts.' https://www.yakima.com/60-tracks-w-capnut-hardware.
Two things to consider, hardware and track length. Yakima offers 'capnuts' and 'plusnuts.' Use capnuts with fiberglass tops like our Westy's. The plus nuts are expanding hardware used when you can not access the bolt from underside - they are very similar in concept to 'rivnuts' and work if you are mounting into a sheet metal roof as I did on my Pathfinder back in the 90s.
Yakima offers 42", 54" and 60" track lengths. I went with two 60" kits but you could probably save some money by ordering a shorter size based on overall length - I think I'm close to 8' all in.
Bar length on my set up is 78". https://www.yakima.com/78-crossbar-pair-2-crossbars Yakima 48" 58" & 66" lengths as well - depending on your needs. They also have an 86" length but these are about twice the price and mass as the 78". I've had my 78" loaded up with a couple hundred lbs of boats on washboard with no bending so good enough for my needs.
2) what did you choose as your span 48" ?
I went with a wide a foot print as our tops allow - didn't measure this but you need to ensure hardware doesn't encroach on edges of top where you might not have space to fasten capnuts.
3) when you say miter...did you do a 45deg so it overlaps? or on diagonal as you look down on it?
I mitered at 45 degrees with front track overlapping top of bottom track - makes for a tight seam!
4) I can see about how far you went forward with bars..as I se forward through bolts for top...how far from back? was this a good choice? no interference with lift hatch?
No interference with hatch - I am as far back as possible - make careful note not to exceed your access from underside of pop top. Similar to laying out the width, the underside is both shorter and more narrow than what you see from the top (talking about our pop top as it's constructed in multiple layers.)
Post by: Farther on September 15, 2015, 11:38:55 am
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71htul%2BI0YL._SY355_.jpg)Although I have a Winnebago, I use the two step version of that Cosco step ladder. Both the two and three step are available at Walmart for under $20 the last time I checked. I also use the two step to get me in the upper bed as I am 5'8" on a good day.
Folds up nice, easily slips in under the rear platform.
Post by: Suthernvanman on November 22, 2015, 06:23:14 am
I decided to add a second locking strut and ordered one from GoWesty. When I took it out to the van it was far too long. I sent GW tech a note and they advised it may need to be cut down. So measuring it against stock I ended up cutting down the locking tube by 2"
Additionally I've added a very simple backup for each locking strut - a flat overhand jam knot on a loop - it's always right there when you need it. Sleep ez.
That does not fit:
(https://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-n5zDtwQ/0/L/IMG_0403-L.jpg)
Elevated so the shaft had room to drop down then multiple passes with the radial arm. This can also be done with band saw or....
(https://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-tqgN3hM/0/L/IMG_0410-L.jpg)
Using utility cord to set up compression for installation. You've got to guess for stretch - took a few times to get that right.
Two loops both set around the strut, use the large diameter tube for gripping, compress and slip the top loop over.
(https://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-k6cPs9K/0/L/IMG_0412-L.jpg)
(https://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-qD7379h/0/L/IMG_0413-L.jpg)
Jam knot as additional layer of protection - I was using this and front mtn bike wheel prior to adding 2nd strut!
(https://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-fJ65WSW/0/L/IMG_0406-L.jpg)
(https://sgadv.smugmug.com/VanMan/RoofRack/i-MMqttDJ/0/L/IMG_0405-L.jpg)
Post by: boostin20v on June 12, 2016, 04:04:34 pm
Post by: boostin20v on July 29, 2016, 02:05:21 pm
Couple of notes - as Cole pointed out the Yakima supplied track bolts are too short. I believe they are fine thread and I had a hard time locating via Home Depot / Ace so bought them online.
Anyone have measurements for the bolts used to replace the provided ones?
Post by: Cole on August 03, 2016, 06:38:04 pm
Anyone have measurements for the bolts used to replace the provided ones?
I'm pretty sure we have been using 1..25" or 1.5". They are definitely longer than you expect they should be.
Post by: boostin20v on August 06, 2016, 09:10:57 am
Post by: SWSL on July 09, 2017, 05:22:16 pm
I had a few questions about my rack rig via PM and ok'd with asker to post here in case others may benefit.
Hi. Old thread, but good to keep it all in one place. What basket are you using? The Yakimas are $$$ but don't want a cheap rust prone knock-off either. Yours looks simple and light.
Also what box? I like your setup and am doing the same. Not cheap, but prime real estate never is!
Post by: SWSL on July 11, 2017, 11:52:52 am
Hi. Old thread, but good to keep it all in one place. What basket are you using? The Yakimas are $$$ but don't want a cheap rust prone knock-off either. Yours looks simple and light.
Also what box? I like your setup and am doing the same. Not cheap, but prime real estate never is!
Just to keep all the info visible to everybody, I pm'd Southernvanman and this was his response:
Quote
I'm happy with the rack - it's perfect for me. I used the Yakima "Basketcase" and "Rocket Box Pro" (either the 12 or the 14, probably the 14 but don't recall.)