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Offline dipilato

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Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« on: December 26, 2015, 01:09:09 pm »
Hey Cole, you have inspired me to take the plunge!  I have a 2002 GL that I am preparing to chop the roof and install a pop-top from a 2002 Westy I lucked into (sadly a good friend had it totaled and picked it up from his insurance company) :)

I have the Westy pretty broken down so far, fun taking things apart:


But have ran into the first issue that from looking at all the work you have done, needed to get Obi-van's advice on  ;D. So, under all the top interior trim there is another set of trim (seems to be painted metal) that is adhered quite strongly to the body:


Seems like this all needs to somehow come off in 1 piece, then I would drill out the rivets and also move the support pieces from the donor van to the new one. Any tips here on how to get this off?  Heat gun? Tool suggestions?  Any help and advice would be very welcome...thanks and Aloha!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 07:53:03 pm by dipilato »

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Offline Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2016, 12:55:26 pm »
Sorry I missed this. I know I replied to you by PM but I'll add a bit to this thread just so the information is out there.

The top has a frame that adds the structure to the van once the hole is cut in the roof. You picture with the arrows shows where the left side frame meets up with the front frame. There are 6 pieces to the frame. basically 4 big structural pieces (front, rear, left and right) and then two little triangular trim pieces that fit on the top of the connection point for the front and sides.

They are all riveted and glued to the van. The rivets are easy enough to drill out. The adhesive is a MAJOR PITA to remove. The best solution I have found so far is heat. LOT of heat. Unfortunately you can't really heat all of the frame at once so you can only get bits of it to release at a time. Which means you still have to do lots of prying and you will bend the frame a LOT!

It usually takes me about 3 days to extract a frame from a van in usable shape. Then several hours to straighten the framework as I put it back on the new van. Its very hard to get perfect and I rarely do.

The fortunate thing is that the whole rear half of the frame and the lower edges of all of it are hidden by the trim and bed. So getting it cosmetically perfect isn't all that important. The important part it getting it structurally the same as the factory vans.

When I reinstall all that framework I rivet and glue it down just like the factory did. Sometimes I actually add a few rivets to make it better than stock.

The rear bed board is also glued and riveted down and usually rips some of the wood apart when being removed.

Picture of Scott's van when we did it. (just for the fun of it)

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 01:00:36 pm by Cole »
Cole

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Offline dipilato

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 07:48:31 pm »
Thanks for the advice so far Cole, definitely helpful!  Made some good progress and now have the top off along with all the support pieces.  I think the most helpful item I used taking these off was this:

It is called a bear claw nail puller with scrapper bar.  The scraper side has a nice wide and low entry to get in there and pry with leverage, but not destroy the supports you have to re-use.  I would just heat gun in front and move along slowly prying every inch or so.

Now, its time to order a few things to get ready for the install on the donee van, but could really use some help again if possible.  I have most things together, but here are the few I was hoping for advice from the guru:

1. What did you use to "re-glue" all the main supports with?  It would be to replace the white super strong holding stuff VW used that I just heat gunned off for a few days.
2. On the aluminum rails that the canvas is attached to, what did you use for the stick black sealant between it and the body?
3. What size rivets did you use to re-rivet all the supports to the body?
4. The rubber "rain guard" that runs along above the windshield below the top was attached with double sided tape.  Did you find some that worked and held, or did you use some other adhesive?
5. Last one...the trim that seals the top to the roof.  What did you use in the channel to re-apply this to the top?  Also, anything that will re-attach the seal to the trim?  As you can see below, they are separating.  Hopeful that I wont need to replace the whole thing.


Thanks for any tips on these!  Plan to paint the top this week, start getting the donee ready to get a nice haircut!

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Offline Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 05:05:24 pm »
Thanks for the advice so far Cole, definitely helpful!  Made some good progress and now have the top off along with all the support pieces.  I think the most helpful item I used taking these off was this:

It is called a bear claw nail puller with scrapper bar.  The scraper side has a nice wide and low entry to get in there and pry with leverage, but not destroy the supports you have to re-use.  I would just heat gun in front and move along slowly prying every inch or so.

Now, its time to order a few things to get ready for the install on the donee van, but could really use some help again if possible.  I have most things together, but here are the few I was hoping for advice from the guru:

1. What did you use to "re-glue" all the main supports with?  It would be to replace the white super strong holding stuff VW used that I just heat gunned off for a few days.

I used a HD construction adhesive. I purposely avoided using automotive "panel bond" adhesives just in case the pieces ever needed to be removed again ;)



2. On the aluminum rails that the canvas is attached to, what did you use for the stick black sealant between it and the body?


I just reinstal with the screws, I've never put new adhesive on these. Very few of them have had full adhesive from the factory anyway.  They aren't structural and don't need a water tight seal. Most of the adhesive moves over with the rail anyway and still works fine ;)



3. What size rivets did you use to re-rivet all the supports to the body?

I'll have to double check my tool box. But there are 3 different sizes and lengths.[ /color]



4. The rubber "rain guard" that runs along above the windshield below the top was attached with double sided tape.  Did you find some that worked and held, or did you use some other adhesive?

Strip off all the old adhesive and you can use 3M body trim double sided tape


5. Last one...the trim that seals the top to the roof.  What did you use in the channel to re-apply this to the top?  Also, anything that will re-attach the seal to the trim?  As you can see below, they are separating.


This one you may need to replace if they are separated. The channel is just a pinch fit to the top. You can squeeze it tighter to make it fit snug. I had one that was stubborn and I used Gorilla Glue to keep that spot in place  ;D
Cole

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Offline filmshoot

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 05:10:36 pm »
Brave man doing this poptop mod in the middle of winter!

...tapped out with just a thumb


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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 08:24:09 pm »
Brave man doing this poptop mod in the middle of winter!

...tapped out with just a thumb

Do have to say, it is a bit easier when you live in Hawaii  ;)

Cole, thanks for the tips and will start getting those last bits together.  If you end up finding those rivet sizes just lmk and much appreciated!!  ;D

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 04:52:05 pm »
Finally some time to make some more progress.  Have all the parts stripped off the donor, straightened out and cleaned up.  Cole as you mentioned, this took some time and patience.  Ordered all the stuff we should need to reinstall it all as well.

Got the top cleaned up, and herculined!  Looks really good and the bedliner was pretty easy to apply.


One thing I was trying to figure out was the rubber seal that was seperating.  Tried a few products and this Permatex black super weather strip adhesive did the trick.  Now dont put it in the groove that pushes on to the top, not needed.  But will rebond the seal to the groove really well.


Cole, need the sage's wisdom once more on 2 items.  First, wondering what you ended up doing with the rear a/c area?   You mentioned you were going to duct it up to the trim somehow.  Pic below is from your old thread, any guidance or pics on what you did?



Also I would really like to replace the rear seat in the GLS with the weekender donor seat.  I am pretty sure you did this in your setup.  Are all the mounting points there or did you have to create them.  Also, did it have any fit issues with the rear AC blower on the right side getting in the way?  Any other tips or things to keep in mind?  Going to take the floorboard out of the donor as well and have it ready for your awesome flooring!

As always thanks and aloha!  Hoping to do the big cut next weekend!

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Offline Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2016, 05:10:20 pm »
The rear seat will fit. It just needs 4 holes drilled, and ideally nuts welded on the underside of the floor. If you look close there are indentations on the floor for the weekender/mv seat rails to sit in. Inside those indentations you will see "punch marks" to tell you where to drill.

Once the holes are drilled you can bolt down the seat rails. Then I would clear off the undercoating and weld the nuts to the bottom side of the van. One for safety (they can't fall off) and two so that you can pull the seat rail out if you want in the future without a helper holding the nut under the car.

You will need to use the seat back latches from the donor van. They are longer than the ones the GLS uses.


The rear bed board and cushion from your donor will be too long. You have two choices. Cut it to length. Or find one from a hardtop MV as it had rear AC and the board and cushion are shorter.

Cutting the foam is easy with a bread knife. Cutting the board is hard with a bread knife...... :o


Just hang a curtain.  :P
Cole

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Offline dipilato

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2016, 06:18:00 pm »
Cole thanks!  Perfect info on the seat and will definitely take that advice with welding the nuts underneath.  ;)

On the AC...any reason not to just 86 the whole thing?  I have the trim panel from the donor and would make the rear seat situation easier to deal with.  Have you done that before or any potential problems that could cause? :-\


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Offline Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 06:20:51 pm »
Cole thanks!  Perfect info on the seat and will definitely take that advice with welding the nuts underneath.  ;)

On the AC...any reason not to just 86 the whole thing?  I have the trim panel from the donor and would make the rear seat situation easier to deal with.  Have you done that before or any potential problems that could cause? :-\

It would be far more work to get rid of the rear AC.

Its REALLY nice when its super hot out.

The only thing that is hindered by the rear AC is the rear bed board and it takes 15min to trim it.
Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 09:08:35 pm »
It would be far more work to get rid of the rear AC.

Its REALLY nice when its super hot out.

The only thing that is hindered by the rear AC is the rear bed board and it takes 15min to trim it.

Thanks for the advice...will give it a go leaving it.  Maybe I will make an extendable adjustable directional duct :D

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Offline Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 05:58:38 am »
There really is no need for a duct.

The cold air comes out in a large volume and just fills the back of the van nicely. Without blowing directly on anyone making them too cold.

It works really well in this configuration!!

This is why I never followed up on ducting it.
Cole

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Offline filmshoot

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 12:29:58 am »
Hey does anyone have any good diy links for this poptop mod?

...tapped out with just a thumb


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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2016, 09:17:59 am »
Hey does anyone have any good diy links for this poptop mod?

...tapped out with just a thumb

Not quite a DIY - and not nearly as good as seeing first hand pictures (like above) -- but the VW body builder guidelines (PDF) for the Eurovan document cutting roof openings in section 4.2.

https://www.bb-database.com/en/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=ed9d7e03-c6f0-484f-a7be-96dde13b1947&groupId=137801

Some other good information in there - such as weight limits for the rear door, etc.

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Offline Cole

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Re: Pop-Top Chop Advice needed
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 09:24:57 am »
Hey does anyone have any good diy links for this poptop mod?

...tapped out with just a thumb

Probably as close as you are going to get ;)  Must read every word :o
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5905408-Not-sure-this-is-what-VW-meant-by-quot-Multivan-quot&highlight=multivan
Cole