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Offline Cole

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Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« on: July 15, 2015, 10:09:49 am »
There seems to be some mystery out there about what the aux battery does exactly in the Winnebago camper, how its hooked up, and what the upgrade options are.

Lets bring all the minds and resources together to create a great thread of information and resources on the topic.

If anyone has good links, diagrams or pictures please post them. If we have enough I will update this first post with all the resources for future owners to find.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 10:30:08 am by Cole »
Cole

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Offline albertr

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Re: Winnebago AUx/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 10:26:57 am »
Cole, I'm about to finish my 2001 EVC upgrade (hopefully this weekend or early next week). Will let you know (with plenty of pictures) when it's completed.

-albertr

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Offline Cole

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Re: Winnebago AUx/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 10:28:38 am »
That would be great. Since I don't have a Winnebago I don't have much direct experience with them. I would love to see lots of good information all piled in one easy place for people. As it stands now it's kinda hard to find it all.
Cole

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Offline 42pvan

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 11:33:56 pm »
Cole, I'm willing to share my information as well. I still have the OEM battery box so can measure the dimensions and can tell you what've did for replacement. A lot depends on what loads the user has and expects to see, so maybe we can figure out a way to organize things based upon different "typical" loading scenarios. I pretty busy for the next month or so, so I may not be able to do much until things settle down here a bit.


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Offline BobB

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 05:03:59 pm »
Don't know if David at 1705.net is registered, but he has a number of electrical upgrades on his site.  One is the battery cutoff switch. I followed his instructions and took additional photos for reference.

See http://1705.net


I am thinking of tackling his converter upgrade. I am a relatively decent carpenter, okay with plumbing, but electrical schematics confound me. Others say "just follow the schematic" but that does not work.   I had difficulty connecting his photos to a schematic, so I emailed back and forth with him to get the Winnebago "after" schematic done.  I can share that, but it would really be helpful if someone has more detailed step-by-step photos.
BobB
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Offline sdunn

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 09:14:02 pm »
BobB thanks for the link to 1705.net.  AlbertR has out me on the trail of dirty 12v power as a reason that my vitrifrigo may be cycling too frequently. Definitely going to do that converter upgrade, and replace the bad relay on my furnace while I am at it.

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Offline BobB

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 06:38:29 am »
sdunn

I can send/post the schematic I did (David did review it).  The only caveat -  David told me that the published Winnebago schematic may not agree with what's actually installed on your vehicle.

If you do the conversion, please take step by step photos for those of us who are electrically challenged.  ;)

Also thinking I should upgrade battery to AGM at same time.

The biggest issue I have found with existing setup (and I don't think that will change with a new one) is charging when dry camping for extended time.  This past June, we spent 2 weeks at Ocracoke NPS campground (no hookups).  Driving into the village (3 miles each way) every other day or even every day was not enough to charge the battery.  LEDs worked fine, but when I turned on water, the lights dimmed.  I am thinking of adding the Westy Solar package.  Yes, I could put together my own, but the Westy (80W system made by Zamp) has (1) carry case (2) controller panel is not on the solar panels, but designed to be mounted inside my EVC (3) includes extra long (50') cord (4) includes direct battery connectors, not just alligator clips and (5) has quick disconnect plugs to the panel.
BobB
'99 VW EVC

Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 01:08:24 pm »
My EVC is still in the shop, but it wasn't able to keep the deep cycle battery charged while running the fridge on the last trip up to gold country….about 8 hours of driving…and for the rest of the trip is was low.  Just got the car so it may just be an old battery.  I'll be checking whether the deep cycle battery is good, or just replace it with a couple of golf cart batteries and check/change out the converter.  I'm the same way as Bob with electrical…but basic stuff is doable.

-Need to add a battery cutoff switch (but that's just a splice). 

-Also, I'd like to make one or both of the outlets on the plug in front of the stove run off the battery so the kids can plug in chargers, etc. for their devices.  Depends on where the electrical is wired and how hard it is.  I could just add another plug somewhere.

-I've got a nice solar panel my neighbor (who installs solar) gave me. A Siemans SP75 75watt panel.  I'm considering mounting on the roof but right now I've got many other projects in the works.  I also know I need some kind of controller to modify the output voltage, don't know what I need for that, but I haven't started researching yet. My neighbor will tell me what I need as well when it gets time. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 01:31:10 pm by DRotblatt »
Dan
'Millie', a '95 EVC

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Offline BobB

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 07:52:12 am »
DRotblatt,

I did the cutoff switch per David's instructions on http://1705.net  - straightforward and the particular switch he used is very well made (used on many boats).  I found that the best tool to cut the hole in battery box was the saw blade on a swiss army knife - drill some starter holes and then hand saw around.

I am pretty sure the 12V outlet on the panel above the stove (only one on my EVC - you have 2? "both of the outlets") is off the house battery.  Shows it that way on the schematic; it is where I plug my digital meter in to get a quick read of SOC.  There is another at the rear of the EVC. The dash 12V outlet is off the engine battery.

Check GoPower - they have many accessories for solar panels - connectors, controllers, etc.
BobB
'99 VW EVC

Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 11:39:14 pm »
Thanks Bob!  Cutoff switch is a no brainer and many cheap options.  But I do like the way David did it...easy access. 

The EVC's in the shop still, so I can't look at it now, but I'm referring to the double plug below the stove - a standard 110V household plug.  I believe that the book said that that ran on shore power only.  There is a 12V plug (like a cigarette lighter) near it, and it's good to know that runs off the house battery.  For my last trip, I plugged in an inverter and ran it off the 12V plug, but it would be nice to be able to plug in some 110V items (computers, etc) without the hassle of an inverter.

I just purchased two 6V golf cart batteries, and I'm shopping inverters.  I'll install it in after I get back from my trip this coming weekend.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 12:47:37 am by DRotblatt »
Dan
'Millie', a '95 EVC

Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 12:27:58 am »
Inverter question.  David used the "Progressive Dynamics Intelli-Power model PD 9245C".  I found another site (http://xochi.com/evc/battery-charger/) with some nice EVC builds (http://xochi.com/evc/) that shows basically the same installation, but uses a different inverter: the "ProMariner ProSport Gen 3 Dual battery Charger", I assume model #43020.  (http://promariner.com/products/waterproof-on-board-marine-battery-chargers/prosport-series/)

Any thoughts as to which of the two would work best?  The ProSport looks easier to install, both have similar intelligent charging and close prices.  The Intelli-Power is 45 amp while the promariner is 20 amp but will charge the starter battery as well (though I'd have to run a long cable...)
Dan
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Offline BobB

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 07:06:54 am »
Dan,

110V duplex plug near fridge (and one at rear of EVC, too, on mine) only works when plugged into shore power.  There is no inverter in stock EVC; the Magnatek unit that came with it is only a "power converter" (i.e. charger and not a "smart" at that ) - converting 110V to 12v to charge batteries when on shore power (I think I have that right?)

IIRC the PDI that David uses is not an inverter, but a power converter (smart charger). Disconnect your shore power and you have no 110v.  An inverter would allow you to disconnect shore power and still run 110v off your 12v battery bank.  I believe the ProMariner is also just a power converter, but that company also makes combination charger/ inverters

BobB
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Offline albertr

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2015, 09:18:20 am »
I'm using yet another charger/inverter - Magnum MMS-1012, but I don't use its build-in 1kW inverter.  I'm using a separate 0.3kW inverter - MorningStar SureSine-300. Morningstar has much less power loses comparing to Magnum during inversion process and 300W is sufficient for my needs (charging two laptops).

I use Magnum as a transfer switch/battery charger/ battery monitor. I have Magnum BMK (battery monitor kit) and RC-50 (remote control) which give me ability to always see SOC of the battery. That's one important number I need to know on a long camping trip.

Will publish a review of my electrical setup soon with more info.

-albertr

Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2015, 07:19:59 pm »
Bob, thanks for the clarification, I didn't quite get it.  Looked it up: Converter=AC->DC, Inverter=DC->AC.  So the stock magnatek unit is a dumb primitive converter (which may no longer work), and the upgrades give you a smart better filtered converter.  To get 110v during you drive you have to add an additional inverter.  Got it.  For now the converter upgrade is what I am going to do.  The ProMariner is a smart power converter like David's PDI.

Alvetr, I looked up the magnum MMS-1012 and it looks cool and is both an inverter and converter.  But at 5X the cost of the other chargers it's out of my price range.  Love to see a write-up on it tho!

Anyone know anything about the ProMariner?
Dan
'Millie', a '95 EVC

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Offline 42pvan

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Re: Winnebago AUX/house battery, solar thread.
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2015, 07:18:06 am »
I think we need some definitions here:
DC: direct current is electricity that flows in one direction. This is the the 12 volt system in the EVC. Always has a positive and negative.

AC: alternating current is electricity that alternates directions by constantly switching polarity usually 50 or 60 times a second (50 or 60 Hz). This is the "shore power" that you plug into. In North America this is 120 Volt. There is a "hot" wire that brings the electricity from where it is generated to the device and a neutral wire that completes the circuit but the electricity does not flow from one to the other as it is constantly switching.

Inverter: changes DC electricity to AC electricity.

Converter: changes AC electricity to DC electricity

Charger: a type of converter that is designed to charge batteries.

"Dumb" chargers are just converters that supply voltage a bit higher than the nominal battery voltage so that the charge flows into the battery. For a 12 volt system these should put out about 13.5 volts. This is what comes in the stock EVC.

"Smart" chargers will vary their voltage based upon the current draw. Drained batteries will draw more current than almost full batteries. These are much better for your batteries than the dumb chargers and with some attention and proper use, your batteries should last quite a long time 5-10 years or more.

If you want to plug a computer or TV or Blender into your EVC when not connected to shore power you will need an inverter to change the 12 VDC to AC. Actually, computers and most electronic devices run on DC and the charger you plug is a converter so if you plug in a computer into your inverter equipped EVC, the whole system changes from DC to AC and back to DC again!

The smart chargers may get confused if there are other draws on the system besides the battery it is designed to charge if the draw is large enough. If you plopped a nice smart charger straight into a stock EVC and ran the dometic fridge (technically an absorption refrigerator) in DC mode while plugged into shore power,  the charger would see a draw of 10 amps or so and would assume the battery is very low even if your battery is completely topped off. If your draws are relatively low like electronic devices, LED lights, or a good compressor run refrigerator (e.g. TruckFridge or Vitrifrigo) then the smart should work as intended.

If you want to upgrade the stock EVC converter to smart charger for your AUX battery, then you should think about the entire electrical system and all the draws that you could have on it. There are converter/chargers out there that supply a 12 VDC power source as well as a battery charger but then you would have to change the wiring in your van to install it properly.

I got a dual smart charger that can charge both Aux battery and starter battery independently (ProMariner 20amp dual charger). It's a long run to the starter battery but was not too difficult to accomplish. I also replaced the stock fridge with a 2.5 amp TruckFridge to reduce my potential draw to something that would not alter the behavior of the charger.


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