*

Offline Itsamoto

  • ****
  • 275
  • 14
    • View Profile
Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« on: May 28, 2015, 09:10:59 pm »


So this is certainly an adventure and the biggest car project that I have bitten off -- converting my 02 EVW to 5-spd manual using the elusive 02G-AFL transmission. I have fielded a few inquiries as to how this was going and I thought I might start a small thread here to chronicle things as the project gets started. I've been sitting on the parts for over a year -- and finally have the right window to start working on the van. I will certainly get to the details of this, but I just want to start with an intro of sorts.

For years I sat on the sidelines, looking at Vanagons/Dokas and waiting for the "New Microbus" concept to come to fruition. With onset of children and the necessity of a people-hauler, it was actually Cole's original thread that inspired me to go Eurovan -- and specifically look at 24v-VR6 models. Once I saw the front end off the van -- I realized it was no more difficult to work on than any of the other VWs I've owned (all water cooled). Owning something built in this century is a little bit reasuring to my wife, whom I wouldn't want behind the wheel of "classic" car anyways (with concerns of safety, reliability, etc). I don't want to get into the pissing war of Vanagon vs Eurovan - clearly each has merits/detractions. However, I do believe that most people neglect to see how the Eurovan was actually a rebirth for the vw-van platform -- even Volkswagen itself likens the T4's succession of the rear-engine design to that of the Golf replacing the Beetle.

I've owned a good half dozen VW's leading up to the decision, so I was not alarmed to read that there are "some issues" with the model that scare others away. I figure almost all cars have issues -- what sets VW's apart (IMHO) is the dedicated enthusiasts who share their knowledge and impart wisdoms that build user communities. What did keep me a little hesitant - were the automatic trans repair stories - whether or not they are overblown - I don't know. I have never been keen on automatic transmissions -- so I was always thinking of swapping transmissions from the get go. Be it a mTDI or something else - I was dead set on changing it. 

Now even though I'm in Canada (land of funky Eurovans) -- there is a noticeable shortage of long-nose vans and they are impossible to find. I passed on the opportunity to buy a local one owner, ultra-ultra-low mileage 02 EVW in my province -- but the price was close to $30k! I realized I couldn't stomach spending that much on something I would being looking to convert to a manual and started to look stateside for a good deal. In a whirlwind week of van shopping in Vancouver and Seattle - looking at 12 vans - I was lucky enough to find "Lucille" a Tornado Red EVW owned by van/bus enthusiast.

The moment I first saw "Lucille" drive across the parking lot -- I was smitten. In hindsight, and knowing her the way I do now -- I can safely say that she looked good from a far... Still, I was convinced of her potential -- and the lowest price 24v-VR6 EVW I had seen in while. Highway mileage at 225k and two owners - with some rust starting on the rocker panel, some banged up interior pieces. The right community-vibe from the owner sealed the deal. He loves vans and took pride in the EV (while also owning himself a Syncro-High-top) and had gotten Lucille ready to keep before deciding to sell -- putting on new 215/70/16 BFG ATs, Blistein HDs, a Yakima rack, an ARB awning, Pioneer double-din dvd player. To me it was good value on the extras . When I agreed to keep the van named "Lucille" he took another $500 off. Handshake, done deal.  :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 10:59:54 am by Itsamoto »

*

Offline filmshoot

  • ***
  • 117
  • 0
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 06:11:59 am »
Nice van

 Nice first post.. i definitely  want to see how you make out with this swap! Plz.take lots of pics

*

Offline Cole

  • Gear head!
  • *****
  • 475
  • 29
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 07:51:41 am »
I'm in!  ;D


I've been meaning to figure out how to convert these with domestically available parts. Just not enough time in the day for everything!

My one hesitation with the true VR6 manual that only came behind the 12v is that it's so rare and hard to find.mif you ever break it you could be SOL for a long time while sourcing a replacement.

Cole

*

Offline trbowgn

  • *
  • 34
  • 3
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 12:07:44 pm »
I'm in!  ;D


I've been meaning to figure out how to convert these with domestically available parts. Just not enough time in the day for everything!

My one hesitation with the true VR6 manual that only came behind the 12v is that it's so rare and hard to find.mif you ever break it you could be SOL for a long time while sourcing a replacement.

Definitely want to see how this goes.  I went with a 95 because it came with the manual but the extra HP of a 24v VR6 would be fun.

Cole,
That is why you buy a spare when you get a chance and put it in a tote.  This is also away to almost guarantee that the one you have will never fail. 
Kyle O.
95 EVC 5cyl 5spd

*

Offline rcowan

  • ***
  • 102
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 01:07:26 pm »
This is going to be good. :-) Mine would probably still be VR6 (it's TDI now) if I could have found a good solution for the transmission! I'm excited to watch this.

*

Offline Itsamoto

  • ****
  • 275
  • 14
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2015, 01:14:19 pm »
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm excited to get this rolling too -- but I know it will take some time. I'll do my best to post some pictures of the process and the important details.

@Cole -- Agree with the concern that something this rare can lead to downtime. I've already run into this with a couple of items that I want to replace (and make things as new as possible) - so patience, research and more patience is definitely required. Interestingly though, there are many parts for the swap in North America. I guess the plans were for these manual VR6s to be here back 97 - and the plug was pulled last second. The nice thing about keeping it "stock" (with an upgraded engine comparatively) -- is that there is no surprises, no special engineering required. I bumped that thread on the Samba regarding the 1.8t conversion -- but this way easier.

@Trbogn -- The pull on the van seems very good -- although I have not properly compared it to a 5cyl van. I know from my trips from Alberta to Vancouver (along the Coquihalla Highway) that the van can really rip it up hills much to the surprise of other camper-vans out there.  ;D

And yes -- spares (for everyone) are in my mind and in the plans.  ;)

*

Offline kjeff

  • *
  • 18
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2015, 10:50:25 pm »
Good deal... I've been thinking about this for a few months now

*

Offline Itsamoto

  • ****
  • 275
  • 14
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2015, 02:43:31 pm »
My lucky find happened just over a year ago. I was searching for components to do a TDI swap -- and I landed at the Quality German Parts webpage. There, nestled in among the diesel engine components, was a little section devoted to Eurovans. Within it -- a very rare, somewhat rusty - AFL transmission conversion "kit". The parts included the transmission, clutch, shift linkage, pedal set, starter, and axles all for $3k. I thought that was a fair deal cheaper than rebuilding the automatic (not that is a problem - but I had budgeted for it), so I immediately called and sealed the deal. Items were shipped up to Montana, where I went and picked them up and brought them back to Canada. I didn't heed the advice to play dumb at the border -- being an honest schmuck -- and paid the extra 10% import duty.

For those interested in Quality German, there is some good stuff there now -- 1.9td engines and even a 2.5tdi and I believe a rusty syncro setup as well. Just be sure that you call Thomas to discuss things as he is not keen on email inquiries and won't respond timely unless you have made the effort to establish contact with them first. Very busy I guess.

So the parts -- most of them were pretty grimy, with some rust and even some damage. But they are used goods -- so not totally surprised. Thomas said that the items had about 150-175k km on them.

02G-AFL Transmission

Lots of dirt on this - I'm still cleaning it!

Shift Linkage or Schaltgestänge

FYI: This is not the same shift linkage as that found on early Eurovans - although they share components. On this Reverse is found below 5th.

Pedal set

This is a set from an early manual T4/Eurovan. The 24v and 2.5tdi vans use a potentiometer on the accelerator pedal. Fortunately - they share the same base plate and you swap the pedals over.

Axles

These were pretty rusty -- but I sense that this is normal for used axles. Either way, while I'm in there I plan on replacing these with new ones - although its nice to have them on hand for reference.


« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 01:41:44 pm by Itsamoto »

*

Offline Itsamoto

  • ****
  • 275
  • 14
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 10:04:52 am »
With Lucille's high mileage (225k miles @ purchase) -- there was some consideration that the engine would probably need an overhaul in the near future. I quickly found signs of an oil/fluid leak. Little drips off the driver side. Little drips off the passenger side. It eluded me for a long time -- because the leaks were happening in multiple places. There were some evap flow codes that I assume were a leak in the pvc tube by evidence of the electrical tape fixes. Chains were getting noisy, lots of oil and sludge in places. So - it was time to hunt for a second engine. I figure having two would allow me the time to learn about rebuilding the engine - or sourcing it out without pressure.

It seems like doing a complete rebuild on a 24v vr6 costs almost the same as buying a new crate engine. Still - I could not afford either option and I looked for used BDF code engines (found on Mk4 Jettas/Golfs). My second lucky find -- a low mileage 2003 Jetta GLI (130k km or ~80k miles) for $500 CDN (that's ~$400 USD)! A 100 miles away -- sitting with a broken axle, torn up front rim/wheel, busted transmission case and tear through the oil pan. The owner had run up a ice bank and was ready to move on. The engine looked clean inside and I picked it up and towed it home on a dolly.  :D



I have an 2002 Jetta 2.0 as well that I am the original owner - -but it sadly needed some TLC. The GLI nicely fit the bill for a series of upgrades to that car and I transplanted a 3pt leather steering wheel, a full leather interior (nice high bolster, heated seats), replaced a broken side mirror, replaced a rusted front fender panel, trunk, hood, OEM monster mats, aftermarket headlights, and window regulator clips! Whew!

Then I parted out the following:
    Hood (from 2.0) - $50
    Magnaflow Muffler w/tips - $50
    Downpipes and cat - $60
    Rear Bumper - $60
    Taillights - $30
    Wiper Linkage - Goodwill
    Radio - $10
    Cup Holders - $10
    Passenger mirror - $5

I found a replacement rim for the one that was damaged -- and now I still have a nice set of 17" rims to sell or put on one of my Mk4s.  :)




UPDATE: I managed to sell the rims for $400! Minus the $50 I paid for the 4th wheel, that officially puts me into the "black" with my Jetta purchase.  :D
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 11:25:54 am by Itsamoto »

*

Offline Itsamoto

  • ****
  • 275
  • 14
    • View Profile
Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 03:45:47 pm »
For the van -- I kept the engine and its accessories - and set aside the ECU, engine wiring harness and the manifolds.

I was going sell off the accessories, but its actually pretty nice to have an extra AC compressor, 120A alternator and power steering pump. All are similar to the Eurovan's -- save for the pully.  The EV pullys are offset about 1 cm , and are slightly wider too when compared to the BDF. Wider pully and belt. This also goes for the crank pully and water pump. I like the idea of the extra clearance -- but may stick with the BDF parts -- they are in better condition.

The transaxle with the Jetta was 02M 6spd for VR6. I took it out with the engine and compared it to the 02G (Eurovan) and an 02A (mk3 VR6) out of interest. Wish I took some better pics for this...

Transaxle Comparison

From left to right: 02A, 02G-AFL, 02M

The 02A is much smaller in comparison -- with the differential being about half the size of the other's. If you look at the bolt pattern for mounting -- you can see there is section with a flat/straight edge to it. This is the "top" of the transaxle in normal mounting -- this would align to the top most bolt holes on the engine block -- just below the thermostat housing. So you can see the degree of offset is quite substantial for the 02G-AFL -- compensating for the way the van's engine is rolled forward (15 degrees?).

So if you want to mount a Mk4 transaxle to your van -- the engine rolling forward actually would raise the output shaft. So do this - probably would adjust the engine mounting position -- more vertical and lower to align the output shaft better.  Or you can wait for me to get you an 02G-AFL-X. ; )
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 08:28:56 pm by Itsamoto »

*

Offline Cole

  • Gear head!
  • *****
  • 475
  • 29
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 03:52:08 pm »
I've been considering trying to fit that manual transmission in one of these by doing exactly what you describe. Lowering the back of the engine to make it sit more level. May require exhaust work.  Drop that 02M in the mail to me ;-)
Cole

*

Offline Itsamoto

  • ****
  • 275
  • 14
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 04:18:10 pm »
I've been considering trying to fit that manual transmission in one of these by doing exactly what you describe. Lowering the back of the engine to make it sit more level. May require exhaust work.  Drop that 02M in the mail to me ;-)

Sorry -I thought I offered to you before and you didn't want it! Plus I already flipped it for this:



But, yes - it would be a real puzzle for sure. I think getting the engine angle determined would be the easy part -- the hard part might be figuring out how everything else in there shuffles around. You may have to go to a jetta/golf intake (flatter) -- but it draws are from the opposite side of the engine bay.

*

Offline Cole

  • Gear head!
  • *****
  • 475
  • 29
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2015, 06:30:58 pm »
No worries  ;D
Cole

*

Offline gerwazy

  • *
  • 33
  • 0
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2015, 03:58:13 pm »
This is looking good, as for the axles, one of them you can reuse I think it is the right one, basicly this tranny uses two identical axles on both sides and one of the auto tranny axles will work... Also I was looking at the pedal cluster and I think all you need to do is swap the brake and add the clutch pedal, you don't have to swap the whole thing... Let's keep this going, my tranny will be here next week, can't wait! :)
Also those rusty ABS rings can be removed, if you need a new replacement ones let me know I can get them pretty cheap. Unless you want to go with new axles, but from what I was told you can't get OEM anymore, only chinese replacements are at the dealers now  :-\
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 04:01:15 pm by gerwazy »

*

Offline gerwazy

  • *
  • 33
  • 0
    • View Profile
Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2015, 04:03:00 pm »
Are you putting a new clutch setup or the used one that came with your kit?