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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 09:33:39 am »
This is going to be good. :-) Mine would probably still be VR6 (it's TDI now) if I could have found a good solution for the transmission! I'm excited to watch this.


How did you get yourself a TDI? -- that is awesome. Please share.

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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 09:57:33 am »
This is looking good, as for the axles, one of them you can reuse I think it is the right one, basicly this tranny uses two identical axles on both sides and one of the auto tranny axles will work... Also I was looking at the pedal cluster and I think all you need to do is swap the brake and add the clutch pedal, you don't have to swap the whole thing... Let's keep this going, my tranny will be here next week, can't wait! :)
Also those rusty ABS rings can be removed, if you need a new replacement ones let me know I can get them pretty cheap. Unless you want to go with new axles, but from what I was told you can't get OEM anymore, only chinese replacements are at the dealers now  :-\

Congrats on finding a trans! I know you've done a few conversions already - can't wait to see your results. Good advice on those parts.

As for the axles - in comparison with the ones from the automatic - - one is the same length, but the bolt patterns are different enough that I thought it won't work. I will look at it again - thanks.

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Offline rcowan

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 01:18:09 pm »
I swapped in a TDI from a '97 Passat. Went to manual transmission at the same time.

We didn't have any problems but I didn't like driving around with a timebomb transmission AND I just plain like manuals better. The VR6 was nice though, if we could have went manual I probably would have done that. Less work for sure and I'd still get to shift! The impossible part for me was finding the parts to do it.

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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 12:03:10 am »
Are you putting a new clutch setup or the used one that came with your kit?

This is a problem I haven't solved yet. From what I've gathered, the clutch that I got in my kit doesn't have much life left in it. The clutch disc is fairly worn, and there is a crack in the pressure plate. While I'm there - I really should be replacing these things... better now while its all apart, rather than later. This is a real oddball clutch though - it's 219mm. I've sourced a replacement (disc, pressure plate and TO bearing) -- here in NA for close to $375 CDN  shipped. Or, conversely I can order one from the UK for about $300 CDN shipped.

02G kit clutch Condition

Hairline crack in pressure plate -- usually a sign of heat stress.


Worn out disc.


What I'd really like to do is see if I can use another clutch assembly altogether. The 02G-AFL has a 22mm diameter input shaft, which I believe is the same as MK3/Corrado/Passat VR6s. So I'm leaning on finding something from those cars -- perhaps a 228mm disc that will work with some parts I have on hand? From my collection of BDF engines, I actually have one clutch set that is in very good condition. The disc won't work, as it's for the larger 24mm diameter input shaft -- but the flywheel looks good -- just not sure if the pressure plate will fit inside the bell-housing without rubbing. The overall dimensions are very close -- its the taper of the pressure plate. If I could use these parts and just add a disc that works that would be cheaper and more readily available option.

Advice? Should I just bolt it up with the 02M clutch assembly and crank the engine by hand to see if there is any rubbing?

Clutch Comparison

Left -- 02G 219 mm clutch, Right --228mm clutch from the 02M


Side view

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Offline gerwazy

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 05:00:54 am »
I am pretty sure the bolt pattern on the axles is the same but I won't know until my parts get here... As for the clutch setup I have a brand new pressure plate with clutch disc I got off Ebay some time ago, it is 219mm but I would love to get a new dual mass flywheel or find a single mass that will fit... We might be able to use the 228mm 24V VR6 flywheel in there according to some post on UK forums...I can get a whole new setup, dual mass, pressure plate and clutch disc for around $800 but it is not cheap... On the other hand not sure I want to reuse the old parts...

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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 01:02:07 pm »
I am pretty sure the bolt pattern on the axles is the same but I won't know until my parts get here... As for the clutch setup I have a brand new pressure plate with clutch disc I got off Ebay some time ago, it is 219mm but I would love to get a new dual mass flywheel or find a single mass that will fit... We might be able to use the 228mm 24V VR6 flywheel in there according to some post on UK forums...I can get a whole new setup, dual mass, pressure plate and clutch disc for around $800 but it is not cheap... On the other hand not sure I want to reuse the old parts...

The axles I have are different from the automatic. Outer CV is the same -- but the inner CV is smaller (~4.25" dia vs 5"). My inner CVs are also missing the star-shaped cover pieces - but this seems to be the same size as MK4 - so again I will complete them with this.

A MK4 clutch disc won't work -- the input shaft diameter is off from the 02G - which needs a 22mm (mk3 size). If you want, I have a spare 228 240mm flywheel and pressure plate -- you are welcome to them for the cost of shipping.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 06:07:17 pm by Itsamoto »

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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2015, 05:13:20 pm »
Here's a positive/promising development on the clutch choice.

According to Aggie's post on the T4forum -- there was a 240mm clutch for some of the diesel 02G users.

AXG,AHY DMF part number 074105266L
" " clutch pressure plate 074141025L
" " clutch friction plate 074141032D

This just happens to look an awful lot like the two clutches and flywheels that I got along with my BDFs -- which I mistook for being just run of the mill 228mm.  :)

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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2015, 08:49:21 pm »
Here's a positive/promising development on the clutch choice.

According to Aggie's post on the T4forum -- there was a 240mm clutch for some of the diesel 02G users.

AXG,AHY DMF part number 074105266L
" " clutch pressure plate 074141025L
" " clutch friction plate 074141032D

This just happens to look an awful lot like the two clutches and flywheels that I got along with my BDFs -- which I mistook for being just run of the mill 228mm.  :)

Back to square one -  >:( - I missed a little asterix that denoted that the 02G did change input and output shafts with certain Tdi engines. I'm betting that was to fit that 240mm clutch! Where as north american sources note input shaft differences as 22mm and 24mm -- european sources seem to reference the number of splines 28 vs 23.

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Offline Itsamoto

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Project Lucille -- Big oil leak
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2015, 09:19:41 pm »


While I was parting out the Jetta -- my failure to properly diagnose Lucille's oil leak caught up with me. In hindsight, I believe that I made the cardinal mistake of adding too much oil -- trying to compensate for a slow leak and nurse some more time out of Lucille. Usually I would ad about 1/4 of a quart, every couple of weeks -- but I think I misread a leak from the transmission and added a full quart to the engine. Dumb. She made it to 250k miles - which was my original goal.

Anyhow, on one frigid winter day - after warming the car for about 20 minutes - the dreaded low oil pressure light came on. Luckily I was about 25 ft from my garage - and so I quickly parked the van and got out to see what I can only describe as a waterfall of oil seeping out.  :o

I thought for sure that the head gasket must have blown -as the oil seepage was basically 3ft wide as it poured down. I parked Lucille until things thawed enough for me to look into the leak. Turns out - the oil leak was actually from a small point -- and oil leaked first into the lower engine cover (the big oil diaper as somebody else once described it) - and that created the illusion that the leak was actually much worse than it really was.

Here is what it was:

Plastic oil filter cover! I think these are brittle things - but also I have to take some of the blame here for putting too much oil in it.


It absolutely disintegrated on removal -- and luckily I had just acquired a spare and was able to get things together enough to get Lucille in the garage. Perhaps a billet oil filter cover is worth it.



« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 01:06:03 am by Itsamoto »

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Offline Itsamoto

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Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2015, 09:45:57 pm »
With Lucille in the garage - I opened things up and saw that there was actually a lot of problems under the hood that were contributing to my oil leaks. From this picture you can see the power steering fluid reservoir is a mess (as is the pump) -- and oil all along the SAI pressure hose (running down the left side of the engine).



Then there are some tell-tale signs of extra oil in the system (dipstick tube and the oil filler tube).  :-[  In my defence, the front of the oil filler tube was black from the moment I owned her. I wiped it down after seeing on Cole's thread that his had a white stripe on it.  :D




The crankcase breather hose was riddled with cracks - but not enough to prevent oil from accumulating in the intake hose, and dribbling back to the MAF
sensor (which was installed upside down!) and leaking out from there.



The real big oil leak - the one that I had been chasing around actually wasn't from the engine, but rather the transmission.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 01:24:55 am by Itsamoto »

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Offline albertr

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2015, 09:29:31 am »
If you are seeing a motor oil pushed from crankcase into the intake manifold, I would check vapor screen (mesh metal net) located on top of the valve cover just below ventilation line (you will need to pull out intake manifold and valve cover to get to it). It can get clogged with sludge from accumulated carbon deposits.

-albertr
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 01:41:00 pm by albertr »

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Offline Itsamoto

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Re: Project Lucille -- EVW VR6 Manual Conversion
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2015, 09:59:32 am »
If you are seeing a motor oil pushed from crankcase into the intake manifold, I would check vapor screen (mesh metal net) located on top of the valve cover just below ventilation line (you will need to pull out intake manifold and valve cover to get to it). It can get clogged with sludge from accumulated carbon deposits.

-albertr

Good call. I have taken a long look comparing Lucille's engine with the low mileage BDF replacement. They are night day in terms of oil sludge and coke.

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Offline Itsamoto

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Project Lucille -- Engine Removal
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2015, 12:06:41 pm »
Pulled Lucille's engine out to replace it with the low mileage BDF that I got from the Jetta. The most daunting thing is the wiring and miles of hoses in there. I can really understand why people like to "delete" things with these engines - if just to makes things more manageable. I can look forward to losing a couple of coolant hoses without the transmission cooler -- but I may go for more deletes (SAI, EGR) along the way.

Engine Removed


Brittle Plastic Hoses

Things went ok -- I only wrecked a few things along the way. I damaged the passenger side motor mount (leaked fluid), a couple of terminal connections and breather hose that totally disintegrated.  ;)

I took my time while removing the wiring harness and tried to label things along the way. The nice thing is the harness can all be disconnected and moved out of the way -- basically all to the drivers side. A lot of the labels have fallen off -- but I think the electrical actually is pretty straight forward to put back - because most of the connections are different or the length of the harness does not permit you to mix up certain plugs. We'll see. :D

After that I then disconnected the air intake and the accessories -- alternator, AC compressor, power steering pump -- to leave the lines intact. Before putting the van up - I broke the main axles bolts free. Once everything was ready - I went back in and removed the drives shafts. Nice way to get to know the suspension (and see all the little things there that need to be fixed).

Lucille's Engine & Trans out


The biggest pain in removal was with the exhaust manifold -- that took me a whole day to get it off. When I pulled the engine from the Jetta -- everything came off easy. On the van - I tried everything I could - but it was very tough. There is one bolt the exhaust manifold that is impossible to work on as the manifold swings out over top of it and there is no room to get it off. I have no tool or ability to reach it properly. I tried cutting it off while in the van - but I just couldn't get to it. Eventually I got myself a long extension and layed under the van and loosened off the downpipes. It took some prying to get them to seperate off the manifold.

Stubborn Exhaust Manifold

Notice the small bolt -- bottom side of the driver side exhaust manifold. Also, this side of the engine block was really ugly - bubbling paint, rust, another oil leak, etc.

The fussy electrical connectors, brittle pipes and some hard to reach bolts are the worst of it -- really not that bad if you are taking the engine and transmission out together.

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Offline Itsamoto

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Project Lucille -- The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2015, 09:18:45 pm »
So, with the low mileage BDF engine I pulled from the Jetta, and a pooched BDF that I traded the Jetta's bad trans for, and now Lucille's AXK engine out -- I have three 24v VR6 to play with.  8)  Each has their strengths and purpose. I like to refer to the them as: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

From Left: Good BDF, Bad AXK from Lucille, Ugly BDF (junk parts)

The Good
Code BDF, Mileage ~80k (131k km), documented synthetic oil history, original chains/guides.
Outstanding issues: Torn oil pan, leaky thermostat housing, blown/missing plug
Silver lining: Pristine oil condition
Summary: Enthusiast owned and pampered.

The Bad
Code AXK/AMV?, Mileage 250k (~400k km), undocumented oil history, second set of chains/guides with 140k miles of wear.
Outstanding issues: Oil sludge throughout.  >:(
Silver lining: Possible back up engine after a thorough cleaning/rebuild.
Summary: A well traveled engine -- but not as well cared for as it could have been.

The Ugly
Code BDF, Mileage ~108k (175k km), undocumented oil history
Outstanding issues: Blown block, thrown rod, bent valves, broken lifter, etc.  :P
Silver lining: Aluminum water pipe!
Summary: Tuner owned/serviced - turbo'd and driven hard till the day she died.

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Offline Itsamoto

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Project Lucille -- The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Pictures)
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2015, 10:07:04 pm »
In pictures:

The Good BDF


Condition when pulled. Shown with 240mm DMF.


After cleaning up coolant leak mess/crud


Oil pan tear/hole


Showing missing/blown plug along top/back of engine.


Level of oil residue on cam/chain area.



The Bad AXK


Evidence of coolant leak mess/crud


Block condition - lots of peeling paint/rust on backside. Excessive heat/Moisture prone area?


Level of oil residue on cam/chain area.



The Ugly BDF


Aluminum crack pipe!


Exhaust headers -- is this what happens when they run super hot?


Blown block.


Level of oil residue on cam/chain area.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 01:22:01 am by Itsamoto »